Ian Murray MP

"if poverty is a barrier to peace, then the barriers aren't been broken down, that's for sure"

24 Nov 2011

Download PDF (50k)

With a new Shadow Cabinet brief, Labour MP Ian Murray is busier than ever before, but made time to talk to SCPO about his new role, how he got involved in politics, and his recent humanitarian trip to Gaza.

Edinburgh born and bred, Ian Murray remembers growing up in the 1980s and 90s in a housing estate in the city during the Thatcher years. With parents who strongly adhered to the values of the Labour party, it seemed a natural choice for Ian, who had long held values of equality, social justice, the eradication of poverty, and the importance of helping out those most in need, to join the Edinburgh University Labour Club when he went to university. When he turned 18, he joined the party, although this was not his first experience of political activism; at school he had been very involved in anti-apartheid campaigns, a subject which piqued his interest in social justice issues.

However, rather than becoming a career politician ("I always use the analogy of a 14 year old who is a world star at football: the advice to that 14 year old is always go and get yourself an education and a proper job first and if it works out for you it works out for you"), Ian went out and got a series of "proper" jobs. Indeed, he has turned his hand to a range of jobs, making a CV which he describes as a "patchwork". Immediately upon leaving university he worked in financial services, admitting that "I think when I left university I had these starry eyed chasing the big salaries and banking sector ideas and decided it wasn't for me". Fortunately, he made his decision to change direction at the time of the 'dot com boom', and established himself as a director for an internet television studio, which involved running major events and festivals. Although this company was ultimately unsuccessful ("the 'dot com bubble' burst") but Ian seized the opportunity and bought out some of the contracts and set up his own events company, which he continues to run: "we still do one in Bath every year... which is good fun to get back to the reality of normal life." He also has experience in the restaurant and bistro trade, taking over failing businesses and getting them running as profitable businesses again.  All of this, Ian says, means that he has vital experience which is valued by the electorate: "one, I've had proper jobs, and secondly, I've been involved in businesses and in running my businesses with staff, so you could never be accused of not knowing the realities of making sure that staff get paid..."

In Labour leader Ed Miliband's most recent Shadow Cabinet reshuffle, Ian found himself being appointed Shadow Minister for Employee Relations, Consumer and Postal Affairs, a job he therefore feels well-equipped to take on. This remit covers a wide range of issues, including the Royal Mail and Post Office, employment law, unions, consumer affairs, competition policy, trade policy, European law, Companies House, corporate governance, insolvency and the Shareholder Executive.

Asking Ian about high cost credit lending, an issue about which there has been a great deal of media attention, he predicted that "I'm sure there will be legislation in the next year on this because the Government has reluctantly decided that it is something they should at least look at. If anybody's ever worked with Stella Creasy (a Labour MP who has been championing the issue), she's formidable; it's not going to go away. The pay-day loans, the high street money lending vultures need to be reined in, because it's creating misery for lots of families... What we need to make sure is that it goes hand in hand with the reform of the banking sector to make sure that people have access to basic bank accounts that are free; people can have post office accounts that are free, and really it will have to be an exercise in awareness to make sure that people are informed... The Credit Union expansion has always been something that everyone wants to do, but we've always found it incredibly difficult but if one thing the banking crisis has does is refocus people's minds on credit unions but also on different ways of doing business; co-operative models, mutuals, partnerships, all that kind of different kind of business. It goes back to what Ed Miliband said in his conference speech, he talked about the producers and the predators in business, and trying to produce a new type of business ethics."

This is a subject about which Ian speaks passionately, but he can see the other side of the argument too. Referring to shops which offer furniture and appliances with high cost credit, he says "there is a counter-argument that says, 'well at least people can get access to the stuff they might need', but we need to make sure we can regulate it so [these companies] can make a reasonable profit as an operating business but within reasonable limits."

Because Ian has taken on this Shadow Cabinet team position, he has had to resign his membership from the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee in Parliament, but shortly before he finished, the Arms and Exports Committee on which he sat as a BIS Committee representative, published an important report on the regulation of arms sales, which encouraged the Government to re-examine its export licensing scheme: "the biggest issue is the sale of arms to authoritarian and repressive regimes, and highlighted in the main because of the Arab Spring in North Africa... The arms trade across the world is completely abhorrent but its not an easy thing to resolve. ... the trade will happen, so does the trade happen with a gold-plated, well respected UK company that creates lots of jobs and lots of economic output with good employees and highly skilled in the UK, or do you revoke those licences and they go and buy their stuff from some company based somewhere else in the world? I fully understand the issue that we shouldn't be selling arms at all, but the pragmatic reality of it is that would we better to sell arms and control it and monitor it, than them just buying them on the black market from somewhere else? I know I've been heavily lobbied by the Churches groups on this. The new report that's come out from the Committee is quite interesting on all of this, and says that we should be limiting it. I think that I'm in full agreement with that, but the problem is it's easy to say that in hindsight."

Continuing with difficult international questions, Ian moved on to discuss his recent humanitarian trip to Gaza.  Having developed an interest in the issue of Israel and Palestinian relations from discussions with his partner Hannah and her family - she is descended from Lithuanian Jews who were emigrating to America but got off the boat in Greenock because the seasickness was unbearable! - Ian was keen, when the opportunity arose with the Council for Palestinian Relations, to see for himself the situation in Gaza.

"I've been very keen to get away from the idea that this is a political thing: just because I stepped foot in Gaza doesn't mean that I think that everything that Israel or the Palestinians do is wrong. We went on a humanitarian trip, and it quite obvious that the blockade into Gaza is killing ordinary normal Gazans, and particularly children, the ill and the elderly. I came back with the view that, and I know this is a very simplistic way to look at it, but let's set the politics aside and look at the humanitarian impact of all of this." Ian recounted his shock at discovering that languishing in Gaza is one of the most technologically advanced radiology units in the Middle East, never used, because the components are classed as having a dual use: "children are dying of cancer because they can't get radiology, and patients can't get out of the country to get treatment and if they do, they can't get back in."

Crossing the border itself proved to be one of the more onerous parts of the journey, even on the officially sanctioned trip: "the Rafa crossing is supposed to be open; we were on a diplomatic humanitarian mission and it took us 6 hours to get through it" (following a phone call to the Egyptian Prime Minister's Office).  "I know it's all wrapped up in politics, but you have an old woman, an old man, with a pregnant woman and her husband and 3 young children in 40 degree heat, outside, trying to get through a gate that should be open with all the necessary papers to get back in, and it takes them 5 days to get through.  There was a convoy of aid from Scotland there. I've no idea if it got in, but it sat there for 2 weeks. All it had in it was medicines, but there were two items in the truck on a banned list; and when they took them off the truck, the Egyptians changed them to another 2 items."

Ian realises the challenges that this high-level political situation causes for those having to live, day in, day out: "Fresh water is an issue, because the Israelis are pumping in hundreds of litres of raw sewage, and there's children getting very very sick just by swimming in the sea, so they're trying to find ways of purifying the water, but all of that is finely balanced. And of course they can only purify the water if the electricity stays on, and it rarely does. It was an eye-opener to see the impact of politics on ordinary people, and the problem is, and this is where we get to the crux of it, if it is the case that the Israel and Palestinian issue will not resolved until Israel is comfortable with security and the Palestinians are comfortable with the settlement, then people who have nothing have no hope and no future.  It's easier for them to fire a rocket across the border and kill a few Israelis than it is for them to have hope about the future, and it'll be exactly the same situation in Israel too, and it's how you break that circle. ..it just shows you the power of how politics is all wrapped up in this, and as we speak, new settlements are being planned and built. If you're a very poor Palestinian living on food aid and no way of getting stuff into the country, then you think 'well what's going on here? Who's supporting us?' And if poverty is a barrier to peace, then the barriers aren't been broken down, that's for sure."

At home, poverty is also on the agenda, with the Government's Welfare Reform proposals filling up Ian's constituency mailbag, specifically the concern amongst his constituents about disability support. "the problem is that Welfare Reform has to be done in its widest sense, and there's lots of disabled people who are on benefits who want to work, and we need to find mechanisms of providing them with support to do that, but you can't do that without jobs." Ian questions the rationale of the government's proposals in the current economic climate: "If a 35 year old graduate with a huge CV can't get a job, how on earth can a disabled person who's been out of the workplace for a decade , needing skills refreshed etc, supposed to get into the workplace when jobs are at a premium? Welfare reform doesn't work without jobs, but we don't have any, and the government don't look as if they're in a hurry to give us any."

Having only been elected to Parliament in 2010, although having many years experience as a local councillor, Ian has taken to the job with great enthusiasm, and realises the position of trust he holds within the community: "We do 152 advertised surgeries a year. If a 72 year old woman comes in here and says I need you to help me with the NHS, we'll sort it. She doesn't care if you're reserved, devolved, …tall small, she just wants it sorted. And she'll have come to you for a reason; she might feel comfortable coming here, she's heard that we can sort things, or she was passing on the bus and thought she'd just drop in."  It is this willingness to help which permeates Ian's work, and indeed is one of the reasons he loves his job, because of the opportunities to help people.

When Ian gets a chance to have some time off, he tries to just catch up with family and friends, and maybe gets to Tynecastle, though that is a very infrequent treat.  However, his politician's instinct to never properly switch off from being contactable is revealed when asked about what item he would take if he was stranded on a desert island: a connected iPhone.  However, he would also use the opportunity to read 'War and Peace'; "I don't know anyone that's actually read it, but if I was on a desert island it would force me to do so".  As for who he would take with him, "I'd say my partner Hannah, and ... I think it would be wonderful to have spent time with someone who was involved in some of the greatest stuff that has ever happened. I think Mandela and Obama might be quite a good combination. Or maybe if you're stuck on a desert island you should take an expert in rafts, Bear Grylls or someone!"